Episode 32 – Black Holes & Sleepless Nights, an evening with Collision Devices

Video Transcript scroll for more

Welcome to the Pedal Collaborative podcast. We're so glad you're here. 0:20 Bonjour Beyond the nude Pedal Collaborative Podcast. I told everybody we might be speaking French. 0:27 My name is Alan and I am one of the hosts for the Pedal Collaborative podcast. I am not joined today by Paul because he is sick and maybe we use air quotes to say sick because I 0:40 have not seen him physically sick. So maybe he's just playing Hokie. 0:43 I don't know. But he is going to be the one missing out for sure because we have very, very, very special guests 0:50 today. We have Batiste and Dennis from Collision Devices. 0:55 Hey Gall, how you doing? Fine, yeah. 0:57 Very fine. Very good, good, good. 0:59 We are so glad that you're here. For listeners out there who may not know, Collision Devices is a fantastic boutique pedal 1:07 manufacturing company out of France. So that is why I started with the very limited French that I know. 1:16 And so thank you, thank you. I've been Duolingoing so you know, that's that's how we learn sometimes. 1:23 So let me just give give the pedal over or the pedestal to you, to you for a second, gentlemen, give us a quick rundown introduction of yourselves and maybe your role there at Collision Devices. 1:35 Yeah. Dennis, it's your time. 1:38 So I'm Dennis, I'm I confounded the collision devices with Baptiste. It was in 2018. 1:46 So it's like. Six years. 1:49 Six years ago maybe and I'm in charge of the electronic design, all of the I don't know how to say, but administrative content says etcetera. 2:02 So because we do not have a special person dedicated to support and it's us doing doing that stuff. So yeah, that's the main parts of my job. 2:13 OK, OK. And so as you said, I'm, I'm Baptist, I'm the product designer of collision devices. 2:21 So I made the the stone box design, but also packagings and communication and stuff like that. Yeah, for creation devices. 2:32 Yeah, and he also does the shipping too. Yeah. 2:35 So yeah, many. Just so, yeah, I mean, if you have to stop and go ship some things, we get it. 2:43 We've had that happen. Well, it is so great to have you both here and thank you. 2:50 You know, I would say from the presence that you have online, I expect the company to be a lot bigger in terms of personnel. 3:00 We. Are 4 actually, yeah. 4 OK. 3:02 Yeah. And there is Nicholas doing all of the building and assembly and test. 3:08 Yeah, he used to work in the electronic field before to work with us. And when we started in 2018, he he was helping us, but just like a friend because we used to play 3:23 music together and Nicholas was our touring manager too, so. We had like. 3:29 Sort of funny moments. Yeah, we were like in a in a workshop where all of these things were happening at the same time. 3:37 I mean, collision devices, all of our bands, we had like artistic organizations. It was very, very nice working with friends. 3:47 And then we hired officially Nicholas for the building then I think it was in 2022, yeah. When nocturnal. 3:59 Yeah, when the Nocturnal was released, we hired Hoban, who he's in charge of the electronic design. Maybe more software part for now. 4:11 So now we are 4. That's fantastic. 4:15 And honestly, I'm a little surprised when you say that you started in 2018 because again, the, the image that I see from you all from a public stance in terms of your social media, your, your website 4:29 and all that stuff, that sort of thing, it comes across as a much more mature company than just 6-7 years. 4:37 So kudos to you on that. That's amazing. 4:41 So, yeah, you know, I think let's, I mean, because, I mean, I'm even thinking now of some companies that have been around for decades and decades that still feel like they have that working out of 4:54 their garage vibe. And that's cool. 4:58 I have respect for that, Yeah. Sure. 5:01 But there is something, you know, Paul and I love, love design of things in terms like we had a whole episode about aesthetics for pedals and your your line has been something that has just 5:18 impressed both of us. Thank you. 5:21 And because because and we'll get to this in a second. You can have a really good sounding pedal that looks like garbage and you can have a really great a 5:33 really great looking pedal that sounds like garbage. Did I say that backwards? 5:38 Did I say that good looks good, sounds bad? Yeah, looks bad, sounds good. 5:45 But with your stuff, I feel from what I've experienced, everything is looks great, sounds great. And it even goes a step further and we'll we'll get to that in a second. 5:57 But you kind of touched on one of the questions I wanted to ask you in terms of how you got to start up collision devices. 6:04 So so you were in a band together. Talk real quick about that and then tell us how you got to the place of starting to to design and 6:13 build your own own pedals. OK, so to make a quick. 6:18 Resume. Resume, I know Dennis since I am 1314. 6:24 So we were playing different bands, different music bands and we grew up together together in this very small city. 6:33 And after that Dennis makes some study in electronic and I make some study in architecture. And I stopped my study in architecture and I was working in different company. 6:50 And then he said to me, I have some an idea is to build some effect pedal. And I said OK, I don't know nothing. 7:00 I know nothing about electronics. I can make the the design of the product. 7:07 So he made the prototype of black hole symmetry and I am I was starting drawing the first prototype of the black hole symmetry and that was approximately how the company start the the first project. 7:24 Yeah, that that's the idea. I think that that's maybe the difference between our gross some of the companies you mentioned 7:34 before that are there from like 10 years, 10 years and we are more young, we are younger than these companies. 7:43 But as we were very young when we started, we had no pressure to like make money for kids, family. We, we just had to eat and have quite OK home. 7:59 But yeah, we, we have no, no specific thing to lose in our life. So it was maybe easier for us to launch our home company than people who are who have a lot of 8:14 things to care about. Sure, sure. 8:17 That makes sense. And you know, when I do the math, you know, it's 2025 right now, you started seven years ago. 8:23 That is that it's seven years is a decent amount of time. It just feels, it feels like it was yesterday because of the whole blip of COVID and everything 8:33 shutting down and getting weird, right? You know, 20/20/18 feels like in some ways a lifetime ago and in some ways it feels like last year. 8:43 But and, and again, I think about your company and how far you've progressed in this time and it's it's impressive. 8:53 So this also then. So the black ol Symmetry was the first pedal that you brought to market and I want to talk about the 9:03 design. And now Batiste, it makes sense that you had some study as architect because of the way that that 9:12 pedal is laid out. So I'm going to lead to asking about the layout of that pedal, the knob placement and the pedal. 9:21 I'm sorry, the foot switch placement, we've mentioned it before. The Black Hole Symmetry was one of the, it was our falls in my first foray into collision devices. 9:33 But when I opened it and looked at it, I was like, good God, this is beautiful. It's. 9:40 Gloriously designed, but it's also I started tweaking knobs and like, wait, that doesn't, that doesn't make sense. 9:45 That's not doing anything. And then I realized it's not, it is not, it's not just let's put some knobs over the over each foot 9:55 switch. And that's what that's what works. 9:56 There's design there. Let's get to that in in half a second. 10:01 I want you to know how how we actually got our hands on it because I'm actually, it's going to it's a shout out to Paul's partner. 10:10 So Paul and I have been friends for many, many years, similar to you too. And his birthday is in May. 10:19 And as it gets close to his birthday, she'll usually, sorry, his partner will usually give me a, a text and say, Hey, I've heard Paul talking about this, you know, some things. 10:28 What is, what does he have? What does he not have? 10:30 And she sent me a, a picture of the black hole symmetry. And I was like, oh, well, I know he's been talking about that for a long time, but he's, he's never 10:40 bought it. So that's, that's what we should do. 10:44 So we we got that for him and we did this whole like cloak and Dagger mysterious had it shipped to my house and then I repackaged it because it came, we bought it from, I think we bought it from 11:00 vintage King, a dealer in the United States. A little plug for Vintage King. 11:06 Anybody who wants some really good effects pedals, but also studio gear. They have all of that good stuff and there's good guys and gals working at those locations. 11:15 So anyway, it ships to my house. It's, you know, got the vintage king tape all around it and I knew that if I shipped it back to Paul 11:23 like that, it would just he would know instantly. It's for him and it's right. 11:27 So I repackage it and I don't know how exactly I did it, but I sent it to to his his partner with her name, like her maiden name and like, and then I created some fake address for the return. 11:45 I don't, I don't know how like well, I don't know how like dedicated he would get, you know, in terms of trying to figure out what, what it is that just showed up right for me. 11:54 If it's within like my birthday time frame, I'm like, that's going to be for me. I wonder where it's from. 11:58 So I'm actually not allowed to get any mail or packages for like the month before my birthday. So I just wasn't sure how devious Paul was. 12:08 So anyway, we get it like I get a video of him opening it up and he's like a kid in a candy store just absolutely adores this thing is like so excited. 12:18 But then he plugs it in and is and is just all night long sending me clips of like holy. Shit. 12:25 Check this out and listen to this fuzz and listen to this verb and listen to this delay and like all together and all this sort of thing. 12:31 And and I was very excited that I could play a very small part of of him having that experience. Partner definitely she, she gets all the credit for it and officially she gets all the credit. 12:45 I mean, you 2 get a lot of credit for making it. But then as Paul and I are talking and he's we're the initial excitement's worn down just a tad 12:55 because he still absolutely loves it. And we're looking at it and we're kind of face timing and I'm like, I, I pull up, you know, pictures 13:03 in the manual and I'm like, that doesn't make sense. Tell me how this is work working. 13:06 And then he's getting super sighted, super excited kind of telling me how the knobs are laid out. It, it has a, an, like a, an outer space type of vibe to the way that you label things black hole 13:23 symmetry, right? It's it's definitely got that feel, but the way that you label each of the effects in there, the 13:30 knob sizing, the placement, this is all extremely intentional and, and what you did. And I, I want to hear more about that process for both the black hole symmetry, but also the crushed 13:47 Ternal has definitely is the same in terms of how you've laid it out. The nocturnal as well. 13:54 It there is intention in more than just fitting everything onto a board and into a box, but how it's laid out, how will the user interact with those, the knobs and the switches. 14:09 I could continue to gush, but please tell tell us a little bit more about about that part of the process for you. 14:16 Yeah, for sure there there is a lot of things to say, but first thing and the most important that was I, I had about one year and a half to make the design and it's such an important thing the the 14:33 time even for the the electronic. But no, the company is working. 14:43 We, we made some product every year, but it's hard to to release a product every year because it takes a lot of time extra. 14:52 But for the black hole symmetry, it was the first one. And the first thing I have to say that I had one year and a half. 14:59 So this is the first cool thing about that. The second thing is Dennis and me loved what's going on on space. 15:13 And when we launched the company, we had an idea that we, we are going to build our product around a concept and the black hole symmetry is for sure around the concept of a black hole in space. 15:30 So I said, OK, what's going on on the black hole and around the black hole, there is 3 parts to resume. 15:41 There is the air goes fair, the air vent horizon and the singularity. So I say to Denise, OK, we will build the layout as a real black hole in space. 15:52 So there goes there with the delay with the gold knob on the side of the pedal and then the event arising the reverb, the second part of the black hole and then the singularity in the center of the 16:08 the black hole. So if you look the black hole symmetry, you can look that the design is going to to the center. 16:15 Yes, it's it gets sucked by the Yeah, the middle of the of the black hole. Yeah, it's a circle design rather than a design in line. 16:24 Yeah, no, I and I don't think I ever realized that in terms of the three different parts of the black hole. 16:30 And it's makes perfect sense now that as you've explained it and I'm, I have it up on one of my screens. 16:36 I'm looking at it with that particularly in mind. Yeah, it's, it's beautiful and I love that. 16:43 So the concept, the concept about the space and the time was I think the two facts that the product is now a great product in terms of design extra. 16:58 And just to find fact, I choose the gold number for the delay when I build the black hole symmetry. I had no idea that in a real black hole there is a part and the name of this part is an accretion 17:17 disk and this part in the rear black hole is gold due to. Yeah, due due to the loss of light that gets sucked into into the eventuarism where nothing can 17:31 escape from the huge gravity. So that's the the, the last time we see the light around it. 17:39 So yeah, yeah, it's, I don't know, but it's reminding coincidence. Yeah. 17:45 Coincidence. Your coincidence. 17:47 Yeah, I realized it two years after the release of the black hole symmetry. But I was like, OK, that's just perfect. 17:54 Yeah, it is absolutely perfect. Yes, yes, the knobs on the the black hole symmetry, the for the delay have a gold edging. 18:03 It's, yeah, quite beautiful. Yeah. 18:05 I well, you probably. Remember, I remember too that at this time we did not find the, the name still of the Black Horse 18:15 Symmetry. We didn't have a name for the company yet and we just used to work together on a product. 18:23 But we didn't know at this time that we wanted to launch a company. We just wanted to to make our own project. 18:31 And I think it has been inspired a lot by space because when we finished our real source, we shared coffees together at like 2:00 or 3:00 AM. 18:46 Yeah. And just looking at the sky and wondering what was happening and listening to podcasts or videos 18:52 about that. That's something that feed fed our our discussions about the black hole symmetry. 19:02 And then we came with the sound that was very inspired by post truck or shugaze music. So it was linked to something very ambient and I think it makes the links between the design and the 19:19 sound. And then we came with the name Black hole Symmetry because I sent to Baptiste a screenshot of an 19:28 oscilloscope where I I worked on something which is named a Shua oscillator. So it's a sort of two oscillators that are just next to another's. 19:46 And that's, that was it. It made us think about two black hole and the name black hole Symmetry came from that. 19:56 Beautiful. And we we told, yeah, it's going to be the main hospital. 20:02 Perfect, perfect. We made the we made the video since few weeks to resume the story of the black hole. 20:09 Or. For the people who wants to see, it's in French, but we subtitle it in English. 20:15 OK, OK, I will find that and put it in the notes for people to see because it's absolutely beautiful. 20:21 I mean, and I love again, you know, I, I have nothing against like the Chase Bliss guys and gals. I love their pedals. 20:30 Yeah, in in their own way. I love that all of their single boxes are the same as far as the layout, the dip switches this like 20:39 the toggle switches, they're all the same Yeah. And I'm sure that provides its own challenge. 20:45 But looking at at your catalog and what it says to me for the way that you approach your design is you're more interested in the singular piece and the artistry behind that, creating the story and 21:06 the narrative for that individual piece, fitting it all, of course, within the the branding of the company. 21:13 But it, they're all different and it's I love it. So you had the black hole symmetry that came, Yeah, and. 21:23 Maybe we can say that the name collision devices comes maybe from that time to where we were thinking about finding a name collision devices can be like the collision of the Baptist universe, 21:39 which is more a design universe and my universe which is more electronic. So it's a collision between both universe and it was linked to to the collision in space, because in 21:52 space there is like much collisions between objects. So yeah, that that's something that's inspired us a lot. 22:01 And that's how the name collision devices came. Oh, I love it. 22:05 I love it. I love it. 22:06 I mean, it's cohesive. It it everything together. 22:09 You know, the way that you're described creating the black hole symmetry and your friendship, it it, it collision devices makes perfect sense. 22:17 And I think that was the perfect name. So if we if we continue along with your, your product and the roll outs, what what you what you 22:26 released Black hole symmetry was the first one. And I, I always, I always reference the the nocturnal and the crushed journal because those are some 22:35 of our favorites. But you have some others in there. 22:37 You like you the singularity, which is the fuzz correct on the black hole symmetry is so good that you released it by itself. 22:47 Yeah, so there's so if someone wants just the fuzz, it's this and y'all, if I mean, I'm looking at the screen, I don't have them on like on the video here. 22:57 But if go to their website, collisiondevices.com and just look at these pedals. They're beautiful. 23:03 I mean even the the simplicity of some of them, like the singularity in white, it's just it is a square box with a single knob and a little toggle switch. 23:12 And I mean it's it's and everyone's like So what? It's a box and a switch. 23:16 Look at it, you'll see what I'm talking about. But let's skip past some of the like the singularity as as its own piece because like that came out 23:26 of black hole symmetry. What was the next the next thing that you all worked on after after a black hole symmetry? 23:32 It was the ranch, the. Ranch, Yeah. 23:35 This strange box made in wood and and lizard. Yeah, Yeah, it was, it was a particular time because we released the black hole symmetry and we were 23:48 thinking about building another product. But at the same time appeared the the stress of a real company that has to do a release and to to 24:04 like. To just survive, yeah. 24:06 Yeah, to. Survive to to make, to make some money to, to live and, and to grow up in terms of audience. 24:14 So we were thinking about doing an effect that was very different from the black hole symmetry and we came with the wrench. 24:22 We still had this concept of three effects in the box, but it was a bit different. And even in terms of design, it was very nice to me, but I think it was less understood by our 24:35 customers maybe. Yeah. 24:37 And it was very strange when we release it because the audience was just all this is strange. This is not collision devices. 24:51 They see the black hole symmetry and F studies, they see the ranch with wood box extra. But we really build it as a conceptual product too, and for the people who wants to read, we have a 25:07 story between our products and the ranch is a huge part of this story and we love this. So as we say, we will our product as a concept and the texture, the materials we used, it's, it's 25:29 very important for us. But as Denise said, the electronic was, I mean, the sound of the pedal was perhaps something more 25:40 classical, more classical. And it's not ambient. 25:45 It's not a huge creep. Yeah, Yeah. 25:49 So yeah, perhaps the audience was just. Yeah. 25:52 But I, I think it's, it's a premium product anyway because we, we made it in like a wooden enclosure made of bare wood. 26:04 It's it's US. Walnut, US. 26:07 Walnut. On the top of it, there's Vegetal Laser. 26:13 It's Pineapple Laser. Yeah, it's Fanatic Slice. 26:17 It's not the real laser. Yeah, yeah, it's like vegetal. 26:21 And then we, we made our our own wax to to take care of the pedal. We made our own. 26:28 I don't know how you say, but pads to to clean the the pedal. Yeah. 26:36 And there was like a premium packaging on it. So it no. 26:41 It no. Wow. 26:43 Yeah, we just. Used the stamp. 26:45 Yeah, we, we, we created a stamp to, to, to, to stamp all of the packages with our homemade wax. So it was very sort of a craftsmanship thing. 26:58 Yes, yes, oh, so that's that's one that's been up on my radar. I want to get absolutely because it looks, you know, I I love all right, so I'm going to totally 27:07 veer off because you said the wood is US walnut. I'm going to make a tariff joke. 27:12 Are they like, are we, are we charging you extra? Do you have to pay tariffs on that? 27:23 Oh, oh man, we can go back to tariffs later in a SEC. But all right, so the ranch, for everybody who wants to know it is a OverDrive plus boost and 27:34 dynamic tremolo. Now question is the dynamic tremolo that's in the ranch, is that the same one that's in the 27:42 nocturnal? Kind of the same one. 27:44 It's it's it has been reworked in the Nocturnal, but yeah, it's the same idea with the same envelope follower detection circuit. 27:54 So yeah. Got it, got it. 27:56 Well then that segues us perfectly to the Nocturnal, which was the next larger 3 switch, right? That was the next one after after the ranch. 28:06 Exactly. So this one is a beautiful ambient machine. 28:12 Yeah. So let's talk about that real quick. 28:14 What's the name? Yeah. 28:15 Yeah, so we made, we made it for a friend of us. He asked us to made a shimmer. 28:22 Yeah, we were. We were trading tattoos for a pedal in exchange of tattoos. 28:29 He asked us to build him a pedal. So yeah, that's that's perfect. 28:33 The thought of the of the of the project. So yeah. 28:36 This is a. System order. 28:39 I love it, I love it. So in terms of design, for my part, I don't build the pedal as the exact same way like the Black 28:49 Hole Symmetry, because it wanted some part to be more graphic. Graphic. 28:57 Yeah. In the Black Hole you have the delay on the side, the reverb extra. 29:02 In the Nocturnal you have the shimmer in the right of the pedal, the delay in the left extra. So it was different, but it was very interesting to interact with a customer. 29:13 And yeah, know the approach of the design. But we we also have a concept for the pedal that about a story about a little girl June in the 29:27 pedal. So we we put a concept into this pedal, even if it was a custom holder. 29:34 So it was, yeah, very interesting to made it. Yeah, because we we did the custom pedal for him and then when we tried it with him, we were like, 29:43 OK, we have to release it. So first we released it as a limited edition of like maybe 20/20/25 units. 29:52 It's sold out in the night. So we were like, OK, we have to build it in like maybe a large batch of pedal and we work the wall 30:03 design and maybe have some features. So that's how we came with the final version of the new tunnel. 30:09 But the very first one is a very graphical one. It has been very limited. 30:15 And it's it's a fun story because it was not planned to be serious release at first, but then it it became one. 30:25 Man, so I have what what I love about the nocturnal beyond that it sounds really good. And but like I have the Celeste, the the the pink and purple one. 30:38 There's so many different versions of, of colors and it's even 2 that there's the June 1, which is a little more simple in its, in its design, the graphics on it, But it it's beautiful in its own in 30:52 its, in its own way, this picture of this beautiful girl on, on the front. So it's, it's definitely one of those that I was looking at which of the color colorways fit me the 31:05 most. And I, I ended up with Celeste. 31:09 But. Let's talk about the Shimmer side real quick. 31:13 Paul and I have a love hate relationship with Shimmer and yeah, I think it's because like when we first experienced it with the Stride and Blue Sky, you know, back when it was originally put out, it 31:23 was something that you really couldn't dial back. It was just in the algorithm. 31:27 It was what it was and it was great. And then it became extremely overdone. 31:32 Everybody started doing it. Other companies cut corners in terms of the quality of it and it sounded too harsh and whatnot. 31:40 But I love the way that you've employed the shimmer in the nocturnal. Could you maybe touch real quick on how to bring? 31:52 It's still kind of a nuanced effect in terms of how shimmer is not something that every Reaver passed, but you managed to still make it unique. 32:04 I let you talk about that real. Quick. 32:07 Yeah, first, just to to, to precise it a bit more, the the whole idea of a nocturnal was to represent a sleepless night. 32:17 That's why it's split in three parts that are desk night and down and the shimmer part is down. So it's like when you in our imagination, that's one when you have spent a sleepless night and then 32:37 you open like the eyes at at the morning with birds and with the sun and it's something very shiny. But as you didn't sleep, you're not that that well. 32:47 So that that's the the idea of it. Yeah. 32:51 So the the the algorithm behind the shimmer is that we created this long reverb we like and then we take a part of this reverb that we feed at the input of the reverb. 33:09 So we take a part of the output that we feed at the input. So it's sort of a feedback, but we pitch up this feedback. 33:16 So that's how it creates this shimmer effect because it can't stop being feedback. So it creates the shimmering effects that goes up and up. 33:29 So that's the idea of the shimmer. We didn't like the very cold shimmers. 33:36 So we want it, we wanted it to to be a bit warm and a bit dark. So that's how we we came with the two filters, the filter nub, which is a low pass filter that has 33:51 different resonance frequencies that can make the the shimmer like resonate at some precise frequencies. 34:04 So you can use it like at a low rhythm frequency or a bit high, etcetera. And the color filter, which is an analog bandpass or notch filter. 34:16 And then with it, you can put your shimmer in front of your hairs or in the background. So you can have a very shimmering sound in the background. 34:26 So that's how it's it's more dark or very present shimmer in the in just in front of your hairs, but not that bright because of the other filter knob. 34:40 So the the the worst thing is in the algorithm and with the 2 filter knobs, I think that's that's the worst thing behind the the shimmer. 34:52 I love the imagery that you the story you do. Basically you had me at just like when you don't sleep at all and you start to open your eyes. 35:04 It's similar to the way that the gold on the knobs of the the black hole symmetry. It's like you're, you're, you're taking it, you're creating a story and you're putting it into 35:16 hardware and software engineered. Like, you know, like it's, that's, it's incredible because it's not just like, oh, let's make it 35:25 sound like this. And it's like you're writing a whole like series of novels and then trying to come up. 35:30 You're creating a pedal to represent that. And it's, it's wow. 35:35 And. There is a fun fact when you can say that when you push the knobs. 35:40 Yeah, when you push all of the digital knobs of the shimmer, so it's the shimmer, reverb and filter knobs, the shimmer starts to self erase or self, I don't know, you said, but to disintegrate in 35:56 itself, it's starts to collapse and then it's it sounds like a bit crusher. So that's, that was a bit of a an error, an issue at first, but we let it like that because we loved 36:11 this idea of something very beautiful that opens like a very beautiful morning. And then it's so, so, so beautiful and then it's collapse. 36:22 And that's, I think that that's something we really liked because it was something very, I don't know what you say, but something very like visual thing. 36:35 Well, it, it, it very, it's a very visceral thing because like, think about like, I mean, the last time I stayed up all night, it's probably whenever I fly over to Europe and I get there having not 36:44 slept on the plane, I land and you know, I push through, have as much coffee as I can. And, you know, whether I've, whether, you know, I've landed in Copenhagen or in somewhere in Germany 36:55 and just walking the cities and loving it and it's beautiful and I'm having the best time. And then as it starts to get to dark, I start to implode on myself because of not having slept for, 37:09 you know, 2430, whatever, however much time it's been since I woke up the day before. And that beautiful moment turns into chaos because, yeah, I just start to, I, I implode on myself. 37:19 So yeah, I, I totally. I see that. 37:22 I love that, Yeah. So that's exactly the idea. 37:24 And we, we had this dynamic tremolo to which part is named night. The idea was that it creates a sort of a wobbling, A trembling thing, like when you spend a warm 37:40 night without sleeping, you can stop to shake. And that was the idea when you're tired but you can't sleep, that that's the idea of the of the 37:49 world thing. Yeah, wow. 37:52 It's I love it. It's so good. 37:54 It's, I mean, I like, I, I read all the website stuff, I read all the manuals when I get these things and like try and get all the content information that I can. 38:03 But hearing it from you both and hearing the, there's just the design concepts, the stories behind. I mean, and I don't say like the story of the black hole Symmetry in itself has its own story of 38:16 coming to be, but it also has a story of the concept of what you wanted the pedal to be and nocturnal, just the story of the, of how you, the, the, the, the story you paint in with the picture 38:31 of the, of the, the different parts of the pedal. And it just, it resonates and feels very understandable as a human and being able to understand 38:42 those experiences. But then obviously as a musician, as a, as a guitar player or a synth player, being able to then 38:49 translate those experiences to, to sound. It's, I think, and maybe that's part of what resonates with Paul and I so much and with so many of 38:58 your, of your loyal customers, because you are you're telling stories of experiences that we've all had. 39:08 And in some ways it's hard to come with words with, with life experience. And you're doing a beautiful job here in, in not your, your native language, but it's like I am, 39:23 it's, I'm, I feel moved right now. And just with the understanding of where you have brought this company, the intention behind 39:34 everything that you're doing, I have a lot of respect. And we're only 30 something minutes into this podcast. 39:41 So I am, I am, I am so impressed. I'm so impressed. 39:47 And I don't, I, I mean, we could sit here and talk for hours and hours and hours, but we still have a long way to go here. 39:51 So your next big box release was. It's different. 39:58 Yeah. And it's different in a really, really good way. 40:02 It's the crushed journal. Yeah. 40:05 So if the black hole symmetry is all sound kind of collapsing on itself in this beautiful shoe gazy fuzzy sound, the nocturnal is an ambient machine and that tells you what it is the crushed turtle 40:19 is. You start bringing in some of the sample reduction clock sequencing. 40:26 You start bringing in elements that in some ways are unfamiliar to the Guitar World and definitely have more of a synthesizer feel and some some some your rack, you know, modular stuff and how you've 40:40 designed it. I won't say more. 40:44 Tell us about the crushed turtle. So first for the question we were thinking of of put bit Crusher into the nocturnal as first to 40:58 replace the dynamic tremolo and put bit Crusher and to test the reaction between delay Shimer and bit Crusher. 41:07 So we made the prototype of this and it was great. But we love great things. 41:15 But we always wanted to do more. Sure. 41:18 Yes, so we were listening the bit crashing, shimmering, delaying extra and it was late at night and we were listening this with Denise and some ideas comes in whole brain and we say, oh, maybe we can 41:37 add this, maybe we can add this, maybe we can add this and we build it step by step. And finally, the question no, is not like the Nocturnal because it was a prototype of Nocturnal. 41:55 We named it Crushed Tunnel. And again, there is a story, a concept behind the name and behind June Extra. 42:03 Yeah, yeah, that. That's the whole idea. 42:06 Yeah. As Behind the Nocturnal, the idea is that June, the little girl of the nocturnal, stays on the 42:15 hearse waiting for Joel because Joel is the man that left with his spaceship to the black hole symmetry. 42:23 So that's the link between all of the pedals and in the crush tunnel. June plugs herself in a digital program and then she gets stuck in the program. 42:37 Her memories starts to to be affected by that. And that's how we became with the crush tunnel thing. 42:43 It's like digital madness that goes in all of the ways, noisy, ambient, etcetera. So yeah, that's the the idea behind the crystal mode. 42:56 We liked this clock thing that creates very like, I don't know what you say, but something which is very sad and not in a good way. 43:11 And that's what we we liked because we really like the the ambient and weird stuff like FX tween and maybe both of Canada. 43:23 And that's some of the the music that inspired us a lot to create the correctional, manipulating the samples, etcetera. 43:32 And as you said before, it seems like the question all is more a thin thing and we love for sure the thin world. 43:44 So we are for sure inspired by a synthesizer or extra and in the team Oba the the guy behind the digital code of the question all extra. 43:57 He's a great sings player and he had a lot of idea to bring to to the question. Also it was very interesting to to make more a digital thing compared to how previous product 44:10 before. Sure. 44:12 And, and I think the digital does come through here in a, in a good way, it in a good way. And, and it's, it's so sad because like the word digital can be used in such a negative way when we 44:24 talk about pedals. But we've reached this era of, of things and not just with your progression of pedals, but just in 44:33 the market and as a whole that digital is obviously it's here, but it's, we can do so much with it. That and embracing it for what it is, is a it gets, has come now to be some really excellent, 44:48 excellent boxes. And I love one of the things I love about the crushed journal and I have, I have Paul's here. 44:56 Hold on. We, we pass pedals back, back and forth. 45:03 And when it was time for the, for the last swap, I said, you're not getting the crushed journal back, Paul, We have, we have the, the, the, the pastel color one. 45:16 But I love on the feedback knob. How you go to Infinity here. 45:21 Yeah. And I had Paul's like, you got to try that. 45:23 And I did. And I think like 2 hours later, I was still playing and I was like, oh, I was supposed to check 45:30 everything else out. I'm still on just the feedback knob. 45:33 You're going to have to wait. I love that. 45:38 I love that. And I love so thinking through going back to like the sequencing things and like the clock that you 45:43 have. I asked Paul not to tell me much about the crushed turtle to let me experience it and having, you 45:51 know, played the black hole symmetry and the nocturnal I I thought I was ready to just dive into the crushed turtle and I knew that there was some sequencing. 46:01 I knew that there was some clocking. So I'm thinking to myself, Oh, what else do I know? 46:04 That's got sequence. The Striman Knights guy. 46:07 OK, I know what that is. What else has clocked that I use the chase plus mood. 46:11 OK, I know what that is. And then I get your pedal and again, I'm like, this is not what I was expecting. 46:17 It's so much, it's so much more and I love it. I love it. 46:22 And again, I Paul, sorry you're not getting this back because I, I have so much to dive into. I still, I still have so much to play with this thing. 46:33 Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. 46:37 I, I, I if, if I just want to, to complete on the, the digital thing, I think we as we are young and we do not have that much experience. 46:50 We are not DSP or digital masters. So we learned a lot by ourselves and we learned a lot by making. 46:58 So I think we are not going to be a company that is recreating perfectly the analogue circuits, but in a digital way. 47:08 I think we are going to explore the digital weirdness and those types of things because that that's what we like with the digital stuff. 47:18 I think we're going, we're going, yeah, straight forward in this way for your products, yeah. Well, I think that's great because you stay who you are, you're true to yourselves, true to the 47:32 company, you know, and there are there are other brands out there that have DSP engineers who have been doing it for 20-30 years or whatever, right? 47:43 Yeah, I don't, not every company needs that. And I think what it, you know, there's a lot of brands that they see, they see success from other 47:53 companies and they try to emulate that as best they can. And sure, there is this road map or pathway to that success that could be repeated. 48:06 But to have you introduced digital and DSP into the Crest Journal, not being experts, hiring somebody on that is a little bit more expert than you are, but still saying, no, this is this is the 48:25 DNA of collision devices. And we're going to make, we're going to make weird beautiful things that sounds that that we want to 48:32 play. And it's you're just, you're fortunate to do it extremely well. 48:40 And obviously that comes with all the hard work and dedication that you've put into it. But there's also a gift there, you know, there's a gift in being able to craft beautiful stories, 48:53 both in Word, then to design and then the sound that comes out of it. That's a unique gift that that you both have and that your company, I think has just the beginnings 49:05 here of the success that you're going to, you're going to find. And I, I love that we're talking. 49:10 And usually when Paul and I, sorry, as I said earlier, I'm like taking both roles since Paul's not here. 49:18 Usually when Paul and I are talking to a manufacturer, we, we come up with so much respect that we didn't have originally. 49:25 And I think hearing the stories is what really does it and not just for us, but for those for our listeners, being able to to to humanize these, these metal boxes into what just the heart of Dennis 49:41 and Battist and the rest of your team and what you've got, what you've done. I love it. 49:47 I love it. So crushed Turtle is amazing. 49:52 I feel like we haven't done it justice yet in talking about it. You have all of the sequence steps it takes CV, which I love that more and more effects are are 50:02 doing CVI know nothing about CV, but I still love that it's happening. So, so tell me more a little bit about I guess the sequencing side of it because that that is kind 50:14 of maybe the newer side of of these types of effects with sequence. Let's talk about that. 50:22 Yeah, sure. As we we said before, we were experimenting with the clock of the effects. 50:31 So we saw that by changing the clock we were affecting how the effects behave. So when the clock is decreasing, the reverbs gets longer and the delay gets longer and the pitch is 50:51 is pitch down. And when we increase the clock, it's the other way. 50:57 So we were experimenting with that. We were tricking a lot this clock nub and because it affects both effects and if we want in the 51:09 node, we can set one effect at a fixed clock and have the other affected by the clock nub. So we can have all of the configurations we want, and we came with the idea that it could be great 51:24 to have those pitch transposition, those pitch moves set by musical harmonies. So that's how we came with the sequencer because we have like the tiny interval, which is like just 51:41 sort of a chorus thing. And then we have a minor, second major, second stirrer, third force 5th until the octave. 51:52 That's the idea. It creates it automatize. 51:57 I don't know what you say. It's yeah, I know what you're saying. 52:01 Yeah, it's automatize the clock moves in, in musical intervals shifting. So that's that's that was the aim of the sequencer to create those musical intervals things. 52:17 But with the clock. So when you have like a delay running into the the reverb and you engage the sequencer, you can have 52:29 like a sort of a normalizer that is going to create itself some harmonies, for example, at the octave and it can just pitch down by an octave or two or three or four. 52:45 You can do whatever you want because you have all of the musical intervals and all of the different steps. 52:52 So you can have two steps, you can serve three steps, you can serve 2 steps, you can serve going up and down. 52:59 So you have all of the all of the different possibilities. That's something which is maybe a geek thing because because I think most of the OR a huge part of 53:13 the people that plays a Christian role at first does not understand this sequencer because it can be complicated. 53:21 But as soon as as you experiment with it, I think you you get. The idea, I think experimenting things with the correctional is the best way to discover it. 53:32 I'm not a guitar player. I'm more a drum drum player. 53:36 Yeah. And when Denise gave me the first prototype of the correctional, I was just spending sometimes to to 53:44 turn the sequencer extra. And I was like, OK, this is just happy accident every time. 53:51 And this is exactly what is cool with the Crush channel. So even if you are not a GitHub player extra, just test it and you'll see this is very cool to 54:02 explore a new world of sounds with the sequencer. Yeah, yeah. 54:07 And the idea after that was to have the sequencer being able to be synchronized with an external clock. 54:17 That's why we added just before the release. It was like maybe two weeks before the release we added the sync, yeah. 54:25 OK, so. That can be synchronized with like drum machines or a synthesizer with an another clock. 54:33 So yeah. And it has a special features that not a lot of people know. 54:40 You know. What? 54:42 It's a trigger mode, so you can put your pedal in a trigger mode so that with the sequencer foot switch, you can trigger a new step at each step. 54:56 So it's amazing when you play with, for example, you play in a band with a drummer and it does not play with the metronome with a click and it moves a bit. 55:08 So you can play with him because you can tap whenever you want and it triggers the next step. So it's amazing to do guitar tricks with that. 55:17 And yeah, I love. It the last thing that I can say with the question all it at this time, we wanted to make the 55:25 question all like an object, a funny object and we wanted to play with it and not just buy your pedals, put it on the pedal ball and not touch it during so many years. 55:39 So I think it's the best way to explore a new pedal is to touch it and to turn the knobs. So This is why there is 10 or 12 knobs in the storm box because we love we'll have since so 55:57 obviously we'll have when there is a lot of nerves and. We'll have physical objects and turning nerves stereo. 56:04 So that's the idea of most of our pedals and that's maybe why we didn't came yet with media stereo. That's something which is which is on the on the on the work now. 56:17 But but for for now, we we liked so much experimenting to joining Nabjitzter. Well, I, I love it because, you know, I think those of us who've been playing for a while, we're 56:30 used to at least dialing in the sound that we want. And I love that with all of your big boxes for sure. 56:39 And again, I haven't tried the ranch, Paul, I'm going to buy the ranch. He always tells me whether I can and can't buy things, but he's not here so I can do what I want. 56:51 I love that it's it is yes, you could set it and forget it and always play that sound, but there's so much more to that that the pedal invites you to to come out with. 57:00 And I think the crushed journal is probably the the most of it of sorry of the three. It's the pedal that it does that the most. 57:08 And it's in a way it's almost, it's almost disappointing. And I'll, I'll explain why it's, you know, you find a sound that you love. 57:18 And then I just want to get, so I just want to like again, I was playing that one, just the feedback on Infinity for like 2 hours. 57:24 And then I'm like, oh, wait, there's more. Oh man. 57:27 And like, I feel like I, I let the pedal down by not exploring more. Oh, but I but just knowing that there's more creativity that is waiting to be uncovered is a 57:40 wonderful thing. And especially for musicians who you've been playing for a while, maybe you've gone through a dry 57:46 spell. Having a box that encourages creativity is often that thing that you need to kind of get you out of 57:53 that slump. And I think Crest Turnle definitely, well, all your pedals to do, but Crest Turnle specifically 58:00 because of all the uniqueness that you've put in there, the nuances is, is really wonderful. So yeah, we're jumping over TARS real quick because Dennis, you just teased us with something that's 58:14 coming. Yes. 58:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have, I think we have, we have many things to, to, to come later at different time because we're working on some long time project that are not going to be released the year, 58:37 next year and maybe even not the year after because we are working on big projects for us. But yeah, we we are for sure working on stereo MIDI for new projects and even for our current 58:54 builds. So yeah, there is a black Hole Symmetry V2 which is on the bench. 58:59 There is. A. 59:02 Questionable V2 on the bench too, and there are some other pedals. We are also thinking about a smaller range of pedals that are going to be fun anyway. 59:16 But smaller pedal, maybe more affordable too, because that's something which is very important to us too, because we can't afford our own pedals. 59:28 So we were thinking about about doing about doing some maybe more affordable pedals and that's something we have in mind and are currently working on too. 59:39 But yeah, we have several projects at the same time. I don't know yet which one will be the first to be released, but yeah, there are all of these 59:47 projects. It's OK, we can we can live with this, with the the secret, the shroud of secrecy. 59:54 But I love I love that you you're jumping into the the stereo game. I I'm a I'm a sucker for stereo. 1:00:03 So, but we won't go on that soapbox. Let's jump back to tars real quick. 1:00:08 Tars Deluxe. Yeah, and then I want to move on just because I appreciate the time that you've given us and I want 1:00:14 to let you get back to your day. That's fine. 1:00:18 OK, so Tars Deluxe, I'll, I'll tell, I'll be, I'll be honest, when I saw the original Tars, I'm like, oh, that's really cool looking. 1:00:27 I'm not much of A fuzz guy. It's beautiful. 1:00:29 It's great, but I'll never use it. And then Tars Deluxe came out and I told Paul we need this. 1:00:39 And here's something that Paul doesn't know for his because I told you earlier his birthday's in May. 1:00:48 I bought one of you guys might know this because you know Dennis, you and I've been emailing a bit. I bought one of the burned editions Tars Deluxe for Paul's birthday. 1:00:57 So cool. So this is a Tars Deluxe which for those of you who don't know the Tars Deluxe is a dual fuzz with 1:01:06 two analog filters inspired by the Korg Ms. 20 which Korg Ms. 20 is a an amazing sound machines. Yeah, really. 1:01:16 That that's really why I wanted to buy it because knowing that like the Tars here's here's the thing. 1:01:22 I'm I'm, I'm new to fuzz. I don't love it that much for myself, but I still want it. 1:01:27 And then when Tars Deluxe came out, I'm like, oh, it's two of those. OK. 1:01:30 I mean, it's got to be twice as good. So we got to do it. 1:01:33 And then, and then when the burned edition came out, which is where you, you, you're literally taking the, the, the enclosure and burning them, right? 1:01:45 Chemical leaf burn them. Yeah, yeah. 1:01:48 That's. Fine, I had a try with one stone bug and I tried to burn it with a lighter and more and gasoline etc 1:02:02 but the result was not very good. So I take some paint chemical products and I just. 1:02:11 Yeah, yeah, you swap them together. Yeah, I just swap them together and waiting for them to be just dry and wait for the results and was 1:02:21 very, very great. So. 1:02:23 So yeah. Yeah, it's amazing because all of those chemical products interact together and give this burning 1:02:33 yeah aspect. Yeah, yeah, it's. 1:02:35 We're going to pause real quick here and tell any of the children listening to this episode that don't, don't just mix chemicals have an adult there with you. 1:02:49 No, but it's a, it's a, you know, acid etching and, and all of these types of things are very desirable in our, you know, in the pedal community. 1:02:57 So having, having you doing your own version with specifically with the Tars Deluxe. I, you know, I, I had to, I didn't even ask Paul. 1:03:07 He doesn't know. I'm assuming he's going to find out because he's going to listen to the podcast, but if he doesn't, 1:03:13 maybe it'll be a surprise. But yeah, no, yeah, sorry. 1:03:16 I spent money, bought you something that I think that you'd like, but you, I mean, you guys, you you've had the, the knobs machined, like those are custom, right? 1:03:27 Like this is, this is not just a fuzz in a box. Like, yeah, let's, let's I, I don't, I hate to ask you to be brief because I've just been going on 1:03:37 and on about all your stuff, but I do want to get to some of the last questions that we have. So tell us real quick about Tars Deluxe, because that is like the newest thing that you guys have 1:03:46 come out with and I know that it's probably something that a lot of people are interested in. Yeah, so just as we talk in term of design project design, so for for the nubs and fader caps, the 1:03:59 idea was to make our home design and our home nubs. So I spend a lot of time to to try to Draw Something cool and I was inspired by a lot of nubs. 1:04:16 But the idea to tells the Elix is a robot and we use aluminum for our product. So I said to Dennis we had to use aluminum for our knobs and for the feeder caps. 1:04:31 And I call a friend of us who work 30 minutes from our workshop and I said can you please do this? We made some prototypes and after he sent me the first prototypes and we were like children's in 1:04:48 Christmas, just wow, look, this is a big knob in aluminium is just very crazy. So yeah, that was very fun to build this. 1:05:00 Yeah, it's, there are custom knobs and I see this does not exist a lot, especially in the effects pedal field as our enclosures are custom made too, because these are not standard enclosures, but 1:05:18 this designed them too. Yeah, it made sense to make custom knobs and the big knobs look like UFO, and that's amazing. 1:05:27 They do. They do. 1:05:29 So yeah, in terms of electronic, I think we pushed tasks that looks way maybe wait for than than the task because we wanted it to be more versatile and more powerful, more noisy too. 1:05:48 So that's why we added the second filter and the second fizz, which puts the part of the first fizz circuit in feedback. 1:05:57 So you can have like from a little distortion to a fizz sound and you can put it in feedback with the second fizz and you can filter it. 1:06:07 And we have several modes of, of interacting first and filters together. So it's amazing. 1:06:16 But yeah, there, there are, yeah, many things to, to, to, to, to, to say about toss dialects too. But I think this is maybe the most versatile pedal for sure we've built for now because we just have 1:06:29 like a little amount of effects and controls, but you can do so many things and each position of of the nub does something a bit different than the the the one before that. 1:06:44 So, so yeah, it's, I think it's, it's a studio tool and stage tool too. It's yeah. 1:06:51 And it's very cool. We know that it can be scary to see the task DLX when you just want to buy a first, but with STARS 1:06:59 DLX you can have a little drive or a huge first. So I think this is what is very interesting with Stars DLX. 1:07:06 It's the versatility of the product. Yeah, sure. 1:07:09 And it's very different from having a first pedal into another filter pedal. Yeah, because the circuits are built to interact together, so the first can make the filter clip a 1:07:21 bit. So it's amazing because it's almost like in the Ms. 20 grain texture. 1:07:32 So yeah, it's very cool. And we have a special mode then we have named Add fuzz. 1:07:38 So it adds another fuzz on the top of the filter first. So it creates phasing effects between the two first signals. 1:07:48 It sounds so huge. It's amazing. 1:07:50 Yeah. I'm super excited. 1:07:53 I'm super excited. And I don't know if you have a drum machine, but if you have, please place the Task Deluxe after 1:08:00 your drum machine. It's so, so huge. 1:08:03 Yeah, it's very cool. Yeah, I forget if I had when I ordered that, if I had it shipped to my house or Paul's. 1:08:09 But if it, if it's sent to my house, he may never ever get it because he just, it's, I mean, it's not often that I, that I, I, I don't buy fuzz that often because I don't, it's not my favorite, but 1:08:22 it's not often that I'll just buy something sight unseen or without having listened to anything. But having played, and this is, I think what, what you probably experienced with your, with your 1:08:33 customers, with your loyalty, loyalty that people are showing because of having played some of the other devices that you've made. 1:08:42 I already have a standard in which I'm expecting from from Tars deluxe, and I think that also means that it kind of helped crossover that maybe concern I had about buying a fuss pedal. 1:08:58 And again, I know I bought it for Paul, but really secretly I bought it for myself too. So it's all it's all good, but it's it's beautiful. 1:09:05 I love it. I want it. 1:09:07 I might have to get another one. It's cool. 1:09:13 So all right, so you've kind of answered all the questions that we sent you ahead of time and again, I appreciate you you're both in the communication that we've had. 1:09:24 I appreciate the the flexibility and I love it. I, I do and and I think I told you this yesterday as we were kind of chatting we're I'm used I'm 1:09:35 used because I've because I've worked for for companies in based in Europe for many years. I'm used to speaking English with, with people who are from Europe and the accents 1 they're 1:09:47 beautiful to me. I love them. 1:09:50 But two, it's I, I understand completely. There's, there's not been a moment where I've been like, wait, what did he say? 1:09:58 So it's, it's great. And I remember Dennis and some of our early emails, you were saying that you like, you would be the 1:10:06 one that would do the interview because your English is better and it's fantastic. But but see, it's your English is great too. 1:10:13 So don't, don't, don't sell yourself short. OK, So what we like to do here at the podcast is to ask our interviewees 3 questions. 1:10:27 And I'm going to ask you them one at a time. We call them rapid fire, but they never tend to be rapid fire because everybody likes to talk about, 1:10:37 I guess because the questions kind of they, they bring this like, oh, I want to tell you more. So it's OK if there's like some discussion about it, but it can be a simple one word answer or we 1:10:47 can have a 30 minute dissertation, doesn't matter. So here is the first question. 1:10:54 And yeah, I'm now I'm thinking that with Betsy, with you being a drummer, you still have to answer. And it will, it'll, I like that. 1:11:02 It'll probably different for you because of that. So all right, here we go. 1:11:06 What was your first pedal, not that you made as a company, but that you ever had? About OK, I think it was the chroma console since SO last year. 1:11:23 Yeah, OK. I never bought FX pedal because we had a lot of FX pedal in the workshop. 1:11:31 Yeah, but and Dennis has a lot of effect pedal so. But when I saw the Chroma console, I said just OK, this and drum machine that would be so versatile. 0:00 So I bought it, Yeah, but it was my first effect pedal. 1:11:48 I love that. I love that. 1:11:50 I've used a lot before, but that was not mine. That was Dennis stuff, yeah. 1:11:55 Beautiful, beautiful. All right. 1:11:57 What about you, Dennis? It's not very original, it was a Ditto looper just to play in my room alone. 1:12:07 That's it's great, that's great. It I mean, originality is kind of overrated in some of these things, right? 1:12:13 Like everything kind of comes to us in in different ways and, you know, whether it's at because of somebody's influence that they had on you and and and whatnot. 1:12:24 I mean, you don't, I don't expect the answer to be like, oh, well, I made my own thing because I never liked whatever somebody else. 1:12:31 No, like Ditto Looper is great. It is. 1:12:34 It is fantastic. Yeah. 1:12:36 Yeah, this is very cool. Yeah. 1:12:38 So that's a great answer. All right, next. 1:12:40 We still, we still use it yeah to to do our pedal test so. I mean, honestly. 1:12:47 Is tested with this Ditto looper. Is it your original Ditto looper? 1:12:52 Yeah. Yeah. 1:12:53 It's a must have. It is a must have and honestly, I mean, unless you're wanting to do something really weird and crazy 1:13:02 with a looper, the Ditto is probably as as classic of a a pedal that you can get and it's it's great. 1:13:09 So both great answers, fellas. Fantastic. 1:13:13 All right, next question. And this can be your own. 1:13:17 You can answer with your own. You can answer with one that we don't know about yet and you can say I can't tell you what it is, 1:13:23 but and it can also be something that is not yours. So the question is this, what is your current favorite pedal? 1:13:31 OK. Of how range or or in the world? 1:13:37 Nope. In the world it it can be your range, it can also be something that you're working on, but it can be 1:13:43 anybody else's pedal. It doesn't matter. 1:13:48 Very difficult. I think mine is the count to 5 from yeah. 1:13:55 I think it's the the scariest pillow I've ever used. But it's, yeah, it's how it does guitar tricks. 1:14:04 It yes, yes, great answer. I will not be very original, but I think the the microcosm from hologram electronics because like I 1:14:17 said before, I love happy accidents and I'm not a guitar player. So for me the microcosm was just an say object. 1:14:25 And yeah, I think this is my best pedal. It's a great run. 1:14:30 Yeah, it's a it's it's. Yeah, I I think that the the wall chase, this lineup is for sure amazing. 1:14:37 It's difficult to not pick one. No, I I know. 1:14:41 And this is a hard question. It really is. 1:14:43 That's why. That's why we ask it, you know? 1:14:46 You know, Bati, the. The. 1:14:48 OK. You're obviously a hologram fan. 1:14:52 Yeah. So which so are we? 1:14:54 So are we. So you're perfectly fine there. 1:14:56 Microcosm is one of my favorites as well. It's probably. 1:15:00 It's one of my desert island petals. Yeah. 1:15:02 Meaning exactly like it's currently sitting in a box. I don't use it that much, but it's one of those I probably will never get rid of because I've I've 1:15:10 still yet to unlock everything that it does, kind of like the fresh journal, right? I've yet to unlock everything and it's it is a box full of happy accidents. 1:15:18 And sometimes you need that. And I, I did AI think I was comparing the the newest walrus, the Qi etherealizer with the microcosm, 1:15:31 and they both have some good strengths. It's like a video that I did. 1:15:34 They both have some really good strengths, but one of my favorite things about the Microcosm is that I never know what I'm going to get out of it. 1:15:40 Yeah, like I can put the same thing in it every time and it gives me something different, but it does it in a good, like an organic and a musical way, so I love it. 1:15:49 So you're in good, you're in good company. When the pedal was released the microcosm it we were in two two O 18. 1:16:00 Maybe. 2O18O2O20 and it was for me a really game changer in term of in terms of effect pedal. I was like, OK, we can do this with electronics. 1:16:12 It just. Wow, yeah. 1:16:15 And I love Hologram Company because for me, you know, Rockstar game for GTA5 and Red Dead Redemption, and for me Hologram Electronics are the Rockstar game. 1:16:26 OK. Of the pedal, they just release one effect pedal. 1:16:32 Like two or three years. Yeah, like two or three and I love this concept and yeah, they they take the time to develop a great 1:16:41 product and I think it's working. So yeah, I love the the company for for this. 1:16:49 Nice. It's very. 1:16:49 Cool. Nice. 1:16:51 Well, you may have just answered the next question, Betsy, and that's OK. But here's the question. 1:16:56 No, no, no, no, no, it's fine. The third question is who inspires you to try new gear? 1:17:02 It could be a company, it could be an artist, it could be a friend, it could be an influencer on social media. 1:17:09 To me, no, no doubt it's Nick Reynard from Taylor Meadows. Yes, I love his music so much. 1:17:18 And he's always doing some guitar tricks with his pedals with his MIDI. So yeah, it's it's it's amazing. 1:17:27 And he seems to be an amazing guy too. So yeah, he inspired me a lot. 1:17:32 Yeah, and for me, I think it's the band called Horror. They release an album United States of Horror. 1:17:44 I can speak it's IHO 99 O 9 and we listened the album since 5:00 or six years now and we saw them in live in in the UK and we were young and I was thinking to myself and I said, OK, we can do this with 1:18:06 music. They, they push the the music like nobody pushed the music. 1:18:12 And they inspired me a lot to create. When I'm behind the computer with a drum or a guitar, I said I can do more. 1:18:23 They do more so I can. I love. 1:18:26 It. I love it. 1:18:28 They have this thing of no compromise, yeah, and that's something we really like. Yeah, when we when we build a pedal, it's exactly the same way. 1:18:37 So we say we can do more. We every time can do more. 1:18:42 So please push the project and. I love that, I love that. 1:18:46 And I think that, you know, the the time that we spent today shows that that that is kind of where you are as a company, where you're going, you don't compromise, you push yourselves to do more and 1:18:57 more and more. So I'm really, really excited about what what you have coming down the line. 1:19:03 So I've got one more thing. This is the Paul thing that we do. 1:19:09 And so it'll be interesting, you know, you made a you made a reference, Betsy, about not being able to afford your own pedals. 1:19:15 So that actually that comes back to this question. All right, so this is a Reddit question on the sub forum, our guitar pedals. 1:19:22 OK, So what I'll do is I'll I'll I'll read it and then we kind of all answer the question. So, and this one's not rapid fire. 1:19:31 So what you know, it's like a little slightly discussion. OK, the question is this, what is the most that you have spent on a pedal? 1:19:39 Was it worth it? Did you suffer from buyer's remorse? 1:19:43 So I'm going to and then and then the the it's a Shadowcaster 1O11. Is the person that wrote it what he, he or she or they continue to say is this? 1:19:52 I'm more curious if you thought the pedal was worth what you paid. I tend to find deals on used pedals and generally don't like spending a ton of money on pedals, 1:20:01 especially new ones. One of the most expensive pedals I've ever bought was a Chase Bliss Billy Strings Womb tome. 1:20:09 At first I had had quite a bit of buyer's remorse, but honestly I've had so much fun with it that I now don't feel too bad dropping 400 bucks on a pedal. 1:20:18 So that's the context. What's the most you've ever spent and was it worth it? 1:20:24 Did you have buyer's remorse? Yeah, I think the the, the, the particular thing with us is that we do not buy a lot of pedals, but 1:20:37 we trade pedals with other companies. So yeah, the pedals that I spent the most on was the auto bit from Mary's and it worth it. 1:20:50 So, yeah, we are in the position where we can't afford any new pedal we like, but we wish to, but our, our income does not allow us to do that. 1:21:04 So we understand the the this way of thinking of second hand, etc. But yeah, I, yeah, that that's the thing, yeah. 1:21:14 For for me, obviously it was the the chroma console and it was it a lot, but sometime we can fall in love with a pedal that costs just 100. 1:21:27 And I think the most important thing when you buy a pedal is just to see if the pedal brings you what you want. 1:21:37 Exactly. And a pedal can cost 100 or $1000 if you want it. 1:21:44 And if you see that, yeah, it it brings very cool texture to your thumb. Yeah, I think it's worth it. 1:21:51 Yeah, yeah. And sometimes gear can help to be more creative. 1:21:56 So it's something which is maybe more of a concept, but because it does not feel a need at first, but being more creative is a cool thing for creating tracks. 1:22:13 So yeah, it's it's, it's a cool way of of thinking too. I think what I like when I sometimes buy new products is supporting the builders directly because 1:22:30 all all the local shops, because we do not do that a lot. But if we could, we will do it. 1:22:38 Yeah, the second hand is amazing for people that cannot afford new products and to avoid waste. So yeah, that's something that is very important to us too. 1:22:50 But for for people who want to support and to afford new products, I think that's a cool way. Yeah, because it's cool to to support Fender when you buy a Telecaster extra, but it's so much 1:23:04 funnier to support brand like all the noise extra. So yeah, when when we put our money into a pedal, we put it because we had an ID and we want to 1:23:17 bring it into our pedal ball extra into a whole music. But we know that this the money we spent is going to this company and and they can develop all their 1:23:29 products extra so. Yeah. 1:23:31 And because it supports cool people behind that as everything is political, this is like, this is like a political act of, yeah, spending money too. 1:23:43 Sure, sure, man. We haven't really gotten much into politics this one. 1:23:48 That's maybe because maybe because Paul wasn't here. I love it. 1:23:52 I love it. So this is a question that we usually Paul and I answer too when we when we do it. 1:23:56 So it's not and, and I the most that I've ever paid, I bought the the Chase Bliss CXM 1978 Reverb. So that was like a 900 U.S. dollar and I bought that new. 1:24:11 Thankfully it was when Chase Bliss ran, it ran like that summer sale like in 23 or something like that. 1:24:17 And it was like a 10% off. But most that I've ever paid. 1:24:22 And I, I, I think I had instant buyer's remorse just because of how much it costs. But did do I regret buying it? 1:24:31 No. And I'll say why I don't have it anymore because I'm also like, I, I actually found that the, that 1:24:40 the, the Maris Mercury X covers the knee that I have for those sounds. Yeah, it's amazing, which is also amazing. 1:24:49 And Maris did the algorithms on the CX of 1978, so you can find a bit of it in there. There's definitely hardware differences that you can hear. 1:24:59 I personally, because of the way a, I'm very in and out all the time. I knew that I had, I knew I had to try it, but it had it. 1:25:08 There was a good chance I even knew this going into it that I wasn't going to keep it, but I was able to pass it along and a trade or something like that to somebody else who absolutely loved it 1:25:17 and wanted it. But I, I don't regret it because it also people ask me about that pedal and what do I think about 1:25:25 it? And from both studio musicians and stage musicians, but also I have a lot of because of my work in 1:25:33 pro audio that we've talked about. I have a lot of front of house engineers that that want to use that pedal for like their vocal 1:25:42 chains live and being able to kind of speak to that from from having used it is it's it's it was worth it. 1:25:49 It was worth it to know. And then I was able to to move it, move it on knowing that it wasn't going to be something that I 1:25:55 was going to keep. So, but I think you're right, like I think it's a great way to support, you know, we we have the 1:26:01 money that we have. It's limited. 1:26:03 No matter who we are, no matter how much we make, it's limited. And so we can, we can support the companies that we believe in for whatever reason that may be. 1:26:13 And that's a great, that's a great way to look at it. So thank you so much. 1:26:18 Thank you. Well, fellas, you know, we've come to the end of it and I am so thankful for the time that you've 1:26:24 had here with us and just, oh, it was so wonderful. I would love to do it again sometime with Paul. 1:26:29 Maybe we maybe we do like an after hours episode where it's just Paul, it's just the four of us talking politics. 1:26:37 I'm very interested in in how you feel about that. What I will say to anybody who is interested in collision devices is go to the website 1:26:47 collisiondevices.com and you can check out all the stuff that they have. If you are AUS resident, it's very clear on their website that there is no tariffs for, for the 1:27:01 stuff under 800 U.S. dollars. So that is the de minimis threshold that we've started talking about. 1:27:07 So you get no, I love it, no import fees, no tariffs, only noise. So that's from from your website. 1:27:14 So definitely that. I mean, honestly, any of their pedals in its single form would fall into that category. 1:27:22 I'm, I'm assuming here because you have some bundles. I'm assuming the bundles, if they go above $800, then that's something to be aware of, right? 1:27:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. 1:27:32 So if you don't want to pay a tariff in the States, don't spend more than 800 U.S. dollars. Yeah, exactly. 1:27:39 So I also love this, I'm going to point this out real quick and you don't have to talk about it because we are out of time. 1:27:44 But on the very front page on the, of the shop, there's even a place that says if you were a student or unemployed person, there's a special discount. 1:27:54 I love that. And I think that you, you, you know, obviously you're doing what you're doing to, to sustain your 1:28:02 living, to also sustain the company. But you've made-up many comments throughout this podcast that tells me that you're conscious about 1:28:11 about cost both to yourselves and to your customers. And this is something that I have never seen another manufacturer do so publicly. 1:28:22 So bravo to, to you all and doing that. So there's that also, like they keep an eye on their Instagram because they run sales. 1:28:34 There's B stock pedals. And if you are in France, there is something coming very, very soon. 1:28:43 I think the the make your own like you teach, you teach, you're teaching people how to make pedals in person, right? 1:28:52 Yeah, yeah. That's something we launched recently and we are going to release a new design. 1:28:58 So yeah, that's some of the secret too. But yeah, we're going to release a new design for DIY pedals. 1:29:05 So we're going to teach workshops to assemble pedals in our own workshop. So with our team, we're going to to sell some DIY kits for people who live abroad, and we're going 1:29:20 to sell those pedals fully assembled to for the people who do not have the materials to assemble them. 1:29:26 So yeah, this is going to be a cool one, yeah. That is so cool, so awesome. 1:29:33 So that's so all of that can be found on their website, collisiondevices.com. Go there now and check it out. 1:29:39 Support these guys there, you know, they're wonderful humans and like, like, like we've like we just said, this is a chance that you can use your your finances to get something that you want and 1:29:53 support good people doing it. And I can promise you, you will love any of the pedals that you buy because they're all amazing. 1:30:01 So thank you so much, fellas. I appreciate it. 1:30:06 I wish you the best rest of your week. And so I think it's evening getting close to evening there. 1:30:15 So, Bonnie, thank you. All right. 1:30:22 All right, everybody, we'll catch you soon. Bye. 1:30:25 Thank you.